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The Mayor

Ranked Lobby Redesign

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Stage: Development
ETA: July

The current ranked lobby has you at the mercy of the automatic matchmaking process.  See Finding Any Match for a long discussion.

The new lobby will put matchmaking under your control.  It will also restore the tiered buy-ins.

It will show the five tiers, along with their buy ins, entry fees, and payouts, kind of like the Info screen. Each tier shows the number and tier of players queued for that tier. You select the tier/table you want to play in.

You can only select your current tier, or one or two tiers below your tier. A Diamond having trouble finding other Diamonds to play at the end of the season could join a Platinum or Gold table, and the Platinums and Golds wouldn't be able to stop them. Ranking up brings the ability to join higher buy-in tables, and also the ability to choose to play against lower ranked players. Lower ranks don't have that privilege of choice.

As with the current system, when there are 6 matching players, those players will start a game automatically.

You will also be able to indicate your venue preference.  When the game starts, majority wins the venue choice.

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Yes Yes Yes!!!!:D:D:D

The ranked playerbase will be pleased with these changes. Good deal!!!!B|

Are we going to get incentives for the top diamond players???O.o

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Wow, this is excellent news! I cannot wait for these changes to take effect! Will they roll out for the start of the next season?

8 minutes ago, DaWiz_ said:

Are we going to get incentives for the top diamond players???O.o

+1 from me! If they do this, the game will evolve to a whole new level for me and so many others; we just need something to keep most Diamonds playing until the end and battling it out for the top positions.

Really though, it's so refreshing to have read this thread; I am seriously impressed, excited, and very grateful for the upcoming changes. Thank you so much, Mike Kelly & Prominence Poker Team! :D

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2 hours ago, Mike Kelly said:

You will also be able to indicate your venue preference.  When the game starts, majority wins the venue choice.

I don't know how hard or easy this would be to implement, but why not just choose a 'skin' in the settings and each player is seated at their preferred table. So I might see that we're all sitting in the laundry, but you might see us all at the casino. Just like this website where you can choose the 'theme' at the bottom. The content will be the same but the players theme will be their own choosing.

Again, I don't know how hard or easy this would be for you to implement, but thought I'd mention it.

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9 hours ago, Mike Kelly said:

Stage: Design

The current ranked lobby has you at the mercy of the automatic matchmaking process.  See Finding Any Match for a long discussion.

The new lobby will put matchmaking under your control.  It will also restore the tiered buy-ins.

It will show the five tiers, along with their buy ins, entry fees, and payouts, kind of like the Info screen. Each tier shows the number and tier of players queued for that tier. You select the tier/table you want to play in.

You can only select your current tier, or one or two tiers below your tier. A Diamond having trouble finding other Diamonds to play at the end of the season could join a Platinum or Gold table, and the Platinums and Golds wouldn't be able to stop them. Ranking up brings the ability to join higher buy-in tables, and also the ability to choose to play against lower ranked players. Lower ranks don't have that privilege of choice.

As with the current system, when there are 6 matching players, those players will start a game automatically.

You will also be able to indicate your venue preference.  When the game starts, majority wins the venue choice.

I'm assuming this will not be part of the March ranked season update am I right?

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9 hours ago, DaWiz_ said:

Are we going to get incentives for the top diamond players???

The leaderboards need some work done to support this, but yes, it's planned.  No ETA yet.  I'd like to include it with the other ranked changes, but there's only so much time in the update cycle, so it may get pushed.

I think adding tiered buy-ins back to ranked play will incentivize some people to keep playing in the meantime.

9 hours ago, -LN- said:

Will they roll out for the start of the next season?

I added an ETA.

9 hours ago, P0K3R said:

I don't know how hard or easy this would be to implement, but why not just choose a 'skin' in the settings and each player is seated at their preferred table.

I think the only technical issue would be the dealer - there would be a mismatch in the underlying game simulation between venues that have one and those that don't.  That's probably not hard to solve though.

From a design standpoint, it would detract from the immersive shared experience.  If you're in the bar now, you know everyone else is in the bar.  You're all sharing the same experience.  If you choose your venue separately from everyone else, it separates you from the other players subconsciously.  It lessens the impact of the 3D immersive nature of Prominence Poker.  I don't know how important that is really, but it's something to consider.

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On 2/17/2018 at 3:39 AM, Mike Kelly said:

I think the only technical issue would be the dealer - there would be a mismatch in the underlying game simulation between venues that have one and those that don't.

I didn't consider that part.

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I'm a fan of the changes.  I will still say as one of the diamond players that reaches diamond and then stops, my primary reason for doing so doesn't feel fully addressed with this, which is putting $1M of my reward at risk for the reward drop from diamond to platinum.  Presumably this could happen with one bad run of cards on the last day of the season, even if you've spent 3 weeks at diamond; sounds like that's still in play.  I'll refrain from my full rant on this topic as it's been discussed before, but I'm not sure the tiered buy-ins will be enough to entice this guy to continue playing ranked and putting that $1M at risk once it's guaranteed by not playing.

I'll be curious to see what the tiered buy-in amounts are...if they're high enough that I feel like I can make as much or more in the meantime just on tournament rewards AND unranked tournaments continue to be a non-factor leaving ranked as the only realistic way to find tournaments (not that this is a great feature pushing people towards continuing to play ranked but technically it would work on those of us who just prefer the tournament format), I may be enticed to continue.

I'll wrap it up by saying I love the game, I'll continue to play the game regardless, keep up the excellent work on it.  I'll just be in ring games if tournaments are not an option :)

Edited by PMGS247
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10 hours ago, PMGS247 said:

I'm a fan of the changes.  I will still say as one of the diamond players that reaches diamond and then stops, my primary reason for doing so doesn't feel fully addressed with this, which is putting $1M of my reward at risk for the reward drop from diamond to platinum.  Presumably this could happen with one bad run of cards on the last day of the season, even if you've spent 3 weeks at diamond; sounds like that's still in play.  I'll refrain from my full rant on this topic as it's been discussed before, but I'm not sure the tiered buy-ins will be enough to entice this guy to continue playing ranked and putting that $1M at risk once it's guaranteed by not playing.

I'll be curious to see what the tiered buy-in amounts are...if they're high enough that I feel like I can make as much or more in the meantime just on tournament rewards AND unranked tournaments continue to be a non-factor leaving ranked as the only realistic way to find tournaments (not that this is a great feature pushing people towards continuing to play ranked but technically it would work on those of us who just prefer the tournament format), I may be enticed to continue.

I'll wrap it up by saying I love the game, I'll continue to play the game regardless, keep up the excellent work on it.  I'll just be in ring games if tournaments are not an option :)

Good analysis.

The previous tiered buy-in amounts were 5k (bronze), 10k (silver), 20k (gold), 50k (platinum), 100k (diamond).

You mentioned something that the devs should really consider. Once the casual tourney matchmaking setup is revamped diamond players, most likely, will stop playing ranked tourneys and gravitate to casual tourneys. For example, diamond players will have to decide rather to play a 100k ranked tourney or a 100k (+/-) casual tourney. IMO, most players might choose casual over ranked, which will hinder matchmaking for the diamond tier. So, in all honesty, problems with finding diamond competition might still exist. Ultimately, a player's bankroll will be a deciding factor. Although, there might be some dynamics that I'm not considering. 

It will be great if incentives for top diamond players are included with the update, even if the incentives aren't that immaculate. I've mentioned rewarding more chips and also trophy table items for the top 3 or 5 players; in addition to a trophy chip multiplier format for repetitive wins. I'm sure a lot of coding and details go into these updates, but if the devs can include these types of perks, ranked games will be a healthy tournament from the top down and bottom up.

Another suggestion I made previously is to reward players the current perks on the back-end (clear the hurdle). For example, a player is guaranteed the platinum perks after exceeding that tier. Furthermore, a player would have to exceed 1400 to receive the diamond perks. Personally, I don't think players should be rewarded for barely exceeding a tier. I don't think this suggestion would require much work for the devs to implement. Players might not like this type of change, but if they want the 1.5M chips plus perks they would have to continue to play after reaching 1300 or settle for 500k. IMO, this would be a good solution.

My previous incentive suggestion:

Chip Rewards Example (1.5M x chip multiplier):

1st place  (x10) = 15M

2nd place (x8) = 12M

3rd place (x6) = 9M

4th place (x4) = 6M

5th place (x2) = 3M

Trophy Multiplier:

Trophies for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th (diamond, platinum, gold, silver, and bronze). If a player wins the same trophy multiple times they receive a "x2 (or x1.5) trophy chip multiplier" (for example: 1st place trophy, 15M x 2 = 30M (or 15M x 1.5 = 22.5M) in total winnings). 

Edited by DaWiz_
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I've seen several players mention that end of season rewards should be based on the highest tier reached. For example, if a player reaches diamond but drops back down to lower tiers they would still receive the diamond reward and perks.

I don't think this is a good ideal. Why would I continue to play after reaching diamond? Additionally, if I did continue to play and then drop down to a lower tier I could quit at any time and still get the highest reward. IMO, this ideal doesn't make a lot of sense.O.o

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Thank you for bringing back the tiered buy-ins.  When those were taken away, I kind of lost all motivation to work hard to rank up to Plat/Diamond.

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On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 2:24 AM, DaWiz_ said:

I've seen several players mention that end of season rewards should be based on the highest tier reached. For example, if a player reaches diamond but drops back down to lower tiers they would still receive the diamond reward and perks.

I don't think this is a good ideal. Why would I continue to play after reaching diamond? Additionally, if I did continue to play and then drop down to a lower tier I could quit at any time and still get the highest reward. IMO, this ideal doesn't make a lot of sense.O.o

Yes, its a terrible idea!   Winning is determined by the results at the end of a contest. 

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It appears that provisional players are currently placed in an appropriate tier based on last season's performance.  How will provisional players be seated until their official ranking is established?

I really like the sound of these upcoming changes!

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The provisional tier will be used for table placement and for rating calculations.  The Provisional qualifier is really just to ensure that you play a minimum number of games each season before you can get the season rewards.  The provisional rating and tier will be shown (the provisional player will see their rating in the lobby and the provisional tier icon will have the tier color).

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Playing ranked is a frustrating thing. I'm not on about card algorithm but the fact that there never is enough players at Diamond to fill a Ranked tournament. I simply refuse to play where there is me Diamond and another Diamond player..and 4 Platinum player,because there are too few players active.

And if I should choose to play..well then I will get less points for winning and loose even more for 4,5 or 6th place.

If you get 3rd you will with the current system get Minus points with 4 Platinum players.

So it's plain to see that you should not risk it if you manage to get to Diamond. Then you just stop playing and rake In the 1.5 mill.

And that is what happens.

I for one WANTS to play..And I can accept 2 Platinum players but not 4 or 5.

The point system is not functional with the current amount of players.

 

Another thing is... Why should I not start at Provisional like everybody should and work they way up.

Last season I ended at Diamond and started this as a Platinum ranked. A friend of mine ended on Platinum and started at Gold this season.

Everyone SHOULD start from scratch. I want to earn my rank not be "rewarded" for doing good last season.

I don't understand that change.

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It’s not a change. As I understand it, you start the new season as provisional, but with a hidden ranked point score that is the mean of the points you earned the previous season. 

So, if I’m the previous season you went from 1000 to 1300 points, you’ll start your provisional games with a hidden score of 1150. Note that even finishing Diamond the previous season, if you play your provisional games poorly, you can still end up under 1100. 

As for the Diamond games problem, if they won’t eliminate seasons, can we at least try extending them?  This is the second season in a row I’ve gotten to Diamond in the first week and then not been able to play a ranked tournament for the rest of the season. 

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Extending the season will not help. What is needed is a fixed point system  30..15..5....-5..-15..-30

That way..if the game can't match you with your own tier it will add players from lower without affecting the points given.

And many more will play ranked.

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1 hour ago, Tor Ivar Sæternes said:

Extending the season will not help. What is needed is a fixed point system  30..15..5....-5..-15..-30

That way..if the game can't match you with your own tier it will add players from lower without affecting the points given.

And many more will play ranked.

If you have a fixed point system, you reduce the outcome to a predictable pattern.  This eliminates the whole purpose of gambling, which is taking unpredictable chances.  Gambling, or poker, is not  supposed to fair.

I play ranked tournaments, and I can routinely play a game with a table full of  players at my level.  It takes a little effort and time, and sometimes I quit the lobby to return later.   When the selection process changes from "ideal" to "good", exit and reenter the process.  you keep the "ideal" players and continue to search for additional players in your ranking.  Changing from "ideal" to "good", or "any" is dependent on time, you simple extend the time of your desired search.  

 

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An extended season will give more time for the Diamond tier to populate and people will play if they have enough time to regain Diamond if they happen to lose. 

Fixed point winnings, regardless of the tier you’re playing against pretty much removes the whole purpose of separating us into tiers to begin with. 

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 Extending the season would be advantageous for the diamond players, but diamond players are such a small percentage of  the total number of players that such a change should include other positive reasons. 

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How about that any disincentive to play the game for any player is bad and that incentives are good?

The only complaint I could see would be rewards being issues every 60 days instead of every 30 days. And you could solve that complaint easily by doubling the reward. 

Maybe I’m wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time. 

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Why not have a titanium level, with a 50k buy-in for playing in the diamond level? 

I'll repeat my suggestion to allow those who reach the diamond level, to continue playing.  This would allow a incentive play once your reach a diamond level.  

Doubling the length of the season was tried when Ranked Tournaments' were first introduced, and after a lengthy debate in this forum,  the majority requested that the seasons be shortened.    

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On 4/22/2018 at 11:28 AM, Mike Kelly said:

The provisional tier will be used for table placement and for rating calculations.  The Provisional qualifier is really just to ensure that you play a minimum number of games each season before you can get the season rewards.  The provisional rating and tier will be shown (the provisional player will see their rating in the lobby and the provisional tier icon will have the tier color).

Thanks for the response, Mike. Keep up the good work!

 

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