The Mayor

Avatar Action Tell

Avatar Action Animations  

18 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want the game to stop showing preset actions?

  2. 2. Do you want the game to start showing RAM movements for the active player?



24 posts in this topic

Stage: Design
ETA: None

When you preset an action, your avatar holds its hand over your hole cards, your chip stack, or the table, depending on your preset action.  The entire table can see this.

We plan to change this so that the other players at the table never see your preset action.

As you work with the Radial Action Menu (RAM) to choose your action, your avatar moves its hand over your hole cards, your chip stack, or the table, depending on the state of the RAM.  The entire table does not see this - only you do.

We plan to change this so that the other players at the table see your RAM movements as you make your decision.  The table will only be able to see your RAM movements while it is your turn.  If it is not your turn, and you are working with the RAM to select a preset action, those RAM movements will not be seen by the table.

Also, for consistency, since the table doesn't see your avatar moving his hand around while you're working with the RAM out of turn, you won't see your avatar moving its hand around either.

Please see Tell Sign Functionality for a detailed discussion of these proposed changes.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree 100 percent with these changes.

Displaying players decisions out of turn is unconventional for "online poker". The current setup gives away valuable information that changes the flow of the game. Additionally, players shouldn't be punished for making "decisions" out of turn. In live poker players make decisions out of turn "naturally" and the table has no way of knowing the course of action for their opponents until it's their turn; the same thing should apply in PP. Furthermore, allowing bluff signals is an extremely unorthodox form of poker. I don't think there's evidence of players "deliberately" bluff signaling in live poker. I'm sure if this were the case it would make being a dealer very difficult. 

Players RAM movements represent body language which is an important aspect of live poker.

Thanks. :D

Edited by DaWiz_
Additions
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For pre-sets I voted to keep showing them but really could take or leave it.   It adds kind of a fun element where you can find small edges here and there if you're paying attention, at the risk of the possibility that the person whose pre-set move is meant to be misleading. It's not traditional by any stretch and I'll agree with any arguments from a traditional poker perspective but meh, it's kind of fun.  I'll roll with it either way.

Definitely a fan of the RAM while its the players turn.  That seems a no brainer, even though some people will find a way to be obnoxious about it...nbd.

Also a fan of only showing animations when the rest of the table can see them.  Was actually under the impression this was how it worked all the time until reading another thread recently.

Edited by PMGS247

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to admit that I'm puzzled by the preset action poll. I never gave poker etiquette too much thought until it was discussed thoroughly in the Tell Sign Functionality topic. I don't think anyone who supports the current setup has a logical reason in doing so. There are plenty of video examples online that show why poker etiquette is extremely important.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While discussing the tell sign and muck features with my PS friends it was mentioned that players could use emotes to collude with eachother. This type of collusion never crossed my mind. Would it be possible to prevent the active player (and dealer) from using emotes? 

After thinking about this further if players wanted to collude in such a way they could use signals when it's not their turn. So preventing the active player from using emotes may not resolve the issue. Additionally, I'm not sure if this type of collusion is widespread, but it's worth thinking about... I guess.

30715403_10100140757204111_1920532211665207296_n.jpg.5defb87321049fc1a4c167827548798d.jpg

Edited by DaWiz_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, people could do that, but I'm having a little trouble coming up with a scenario in which it would be necessary or preferable over all the other means of communication people have while playing Prominence.

They want to collude, but to keep it fun, they want to keep it within the game world?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree.  Players could easily collude in group voice chat. Additionally, I think emotes is a great feature in the game. I'm always conversating with others about the game and this topic arose. I personally don't understand why 'some' players want to cheat, it's no fun in doing so. Well anyways, thanks for the response.

Keep up the great work!!! B|

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Mayor said:

We'll definitely show the RAM movements, but preset actions are still undecided.

Nobody's using the preset actions and if they do, it changes the flow of the game. Players should not be able to use another players preset action to make decisions.

This is the only online poker game that allows this information to be seen. 

Please change it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I know you want it changed, and I personally lean that way for all the reasons previously discussed, but the poll results aren't clear.  It will likely get changed as things are now, but no decision has been made just yet.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello  im halo and im plat almost diamond on xbox. I play poker stars and many other poker games,but what stands out with this game is your avatars. I like how it has sort of a" im here with you feel", and i would love to see as many options for tells and bluffs as possible, show the ram movements i bluff with that cha cha with nothing. The preset actions should stay in the game higher tier players aren't having issues with this feature only noobs . Anything my opponent does i wanna see even if he hovers over the fold when i 3 bet. Keep up the good work,  slow ques at night finally popped l8tr going for my golden stogie.

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what... keep preset action visibility in the game. I personally only use it when I fold out of turn. If players want to 'try' and use that information against me bc I decided to fold early so I can put the controller down to eat while playing, or something, then so be it. I'm still going to win!!!

I'm tired of this dumb ass excuse about newbie players using this dumb ass feature. Of course they're going to use preset actions in its current form until they realize its a dumb ass feature. Anybody who has to take advantage of newbies probably sucks anyway.

This topic is a no-brainer!!! It doesn't require alot of thought. Either you have a logical or illogical opinion about this topic. I'm done with this crap!!!!!

Don't think like a man.... Think like a shark!!!

5aeddf7b109bd_PSCommunities_20180505_122623.thumb.jpg.794c887b6114df1e8f01095e5521c049.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, if ANYBODY thinks bluff signals (raise, check, call, fold) will prevent me from sticking to my strategy.... TRY ME!!! That goes for EVERYBODY!!! 

Silly rabbits... Tricks are for kids!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey man if i offended u in any way i apologize, i wasn't trying to come off as egotistical in any way. I just want the game 2 be as realistic as possible especially since this game is using avatars.  In my opinion  there should be a option if not mandatory for ranked players to have a webcam/kinect and they should implement that feature into the game.... It worked on old school uno on xbox 360 ,but hey wat do i know im just a guy addicted to the rush of gambling L8tr all love bros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Halo3remastered said:

Hey man if i offended u in any way i apologize, i wasn't trying to come off as egotistical in any way. I just want the game 2 be as realistic as possible especially since this game is using avatars.  In my opinion  there should be a option if not mandatory for ranked players to have a webcam/kinect and they should implement that feature into the game.... It worked on old school uno on xbox 360 ,but hey wat do i know im just a guy addicted to the rush of gambling L8tr all love bros.

Nah. The people who voted to keep the current format is offending the game and poker, in general. The current setup is not realistic. Point. Blank. Period.

I bring facts to the table, nobody else is producing facts within their argument. I thought preset action visibility was cool for about a week back in August 2016, but once I leveled up I realized it changes the flow of the game. If I'm wrong please show me a live poker video where players are deliberately holding their hand over their chips or showing check/fold OUT OF TURN. If anybody can produce such evidence I will STHU. In live poker players mostly use eye contact, fidgeting, heavy breathing, discomfort, excessive talking, facial expressions, etc. as tell signs. Some of these signs CAN NOT be replicated in online poker. Additionally, live poker players have way more time during decision-making. In online poker there has to be time limits, for various reasons.

The current format hurts newbies the most. They shouldn't be punished or manipulated for using the game as-is. IMO, the user experience is the key to success, and the current setup doesn't produce the best experience for ALL players; knowingly and unknowingly. We all depend on the devs to make the best decisions for all players and skill levels. The poker gods are shaking their heads right now. SHAME!!!

Just imagine cowboys in the 1800s playing poker in a parlor and a player decides to show his decision out of turn and before it's his turn he moves his hand away and says 'psych'. I'm sure that type of player would've been dealt with quickly. Just imagine being a dealer in that same situation. Why would anyone want to confuse the dealer??? I'm sure the dealer would call the table manager over quickly, as seen in the video above (that none of y'all probably didn't even watch before voting or commenting). Additionally, if I'm in a casino (or any live environment) and somebody does this type of shit we're going to have some freaking problems, bc now my money is at stake. If this is the direction online poker is going to take I'll just play other card games.

Webcam poker is a cool ideal, and I've seen it before. Should it be mandatory... Hell Nah! If the devs decide to have some type of elite tournament, then maybe. But not for regular play. I don't want people staring at my ugly ass face LOL:P I'm fine with the avatar setup.

Welcome to the forum! 

Edited by DaWiz_
Addition
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea after watching the vid and smoking i agree with you bros thats not realistic and prob should be takin out of the game can i revote lol poker etiquette. The flow of the hand is unrealistically changed by the ability to see the decision ahead of time.

Edited by Halo3remastered
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Halo3remastered said:

Yea after watching the vid and smoking i agree with you bros thats not realistic and prob should be takin out of the game can i revote lol poker etiquette. The flow of the hand is unrealistically changed by the ability to see the decision ahead of time.

I've been talking about this issue for a long time. My apologies, if I sound like a jackass. I just want everybody to debate the facts, and not make decisions based on what looks or seems cool.

Yes, you can revote.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DaWiz_ said:

I've been talking about this issue for a long time. My apologies, if I sound like a jackass. I just want everybody to debate the facts, and not make decisions based on what looks or seems cool.

Yes, you can revote.

Ok i revoted ,and you are good bro im new 2 the forums i wish they would make this game on mobile that would be cool.

Everyone should watch that vid before voting for sure. My fav momment was when the spanish guy said "re-raise,no  sorry i call", then everybodys all "uh oh you said raise". Spanish buddy said "i ugha no speak ey english". They force him 2 raise other guy calls and wouldnt you know the spanish guy had the nuts lmfao i love it

Edited by Halo3remastered
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this game would be better without preset actions altogether. Players should have to wait thier turn in order to make a selection.

IMO, removing preset actions would place a greater emphasis on RAM movements.

Just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really simple. Acting out of turn in poker is wrong. Discussion over!

 

Quote

Deliberately acting out of turn is not tolerated. A player who checks out of turn may not bet or raise on the next turn to ac t. An action or verbal declaration out of turn may be ruled binding if there is no bet, call, or raise by an intervening player acting after the infraction has been committed.

https://www.cardplayer.com/rules-of-poker

 

Quote

A player who intentionally acts out of turn will be penalized. When a player decides to check when it is not their turn in the action, they are held to the check and will not be allowed to call or raise when their actual turn comes into play. Any stated action which is out of turn will be considered binding if no subsequent players choose to act within their allowed turns.

http://www.wsop.com/poker-games/texas-holdem/rules/

 

Regarding speaking during a hand (similar to acting out of turn)

Quote

“This is so wrong by Phil. This is where Phil deserves penalties,” said Shaun Deeb, who was commentating the final table. “You cannot talk in a multi-way pot and give away your weakness with an opponent still to act. It’s so wrong he gets away with stuff like this. If I’m sitting with a king-high flush draw I know that Phil is not continuing if I call. That totally affects this action and totally hurts his opponent’s equity.”

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2018/07/the-muck-phil-hellmuth-criticized-for-swearing-speaking-out-31408.htm

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a little late to the party, but yeah, I couldn't even believe that your actions would telegraph to the other players. That's bananas!

Pre-selecting actions wasn't added to online poker to be a tell, or a bluff. It's convenience. So I can go get a drink, or run to the washroom. So if I'm not looking at my screen I'm not holding up the game. I'd never use such a feature as a bluff either.... imaging having the nuts, selecting "fold" to bluff.... and everyone acts so quickly I have no time to change my choice and I fold my hand! 

It's already a slight risk that as I select "call", the person before me raises the moment before I select my option, and I call more than I intend. This is a convenience feature, plain and simple, and it needs to be private, period. Anything other than that essentially renders the feature useless. Please change it!

Edited by Andy Leber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now