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Prodigal Gil

Rank Games Gold Level

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Anyone on Gold level or higher in Rank games?

The assumption is that the weaker, less poker experienced, calling stations, donkey players starts to reduce as one goes higher rank. However, this may not be the case and this game becomes more and more bingo like. I don't mean shuffling bingo, but a F2P game becoming, granny bingo poker game the higher status rank. 

Everyone is super tight and everyone slow plays and most of the time, everyone folds when you bet and unless the there is an underbet, you may get one call. Any re-raise, it is highly like going to be an all-in. 

This to me means, no one is playing, out smarting each other, but waiting for their card to turn up. If you even tried a bluffing move and someones hits, you get caught out. Bluffing becomes high risk as 99% all players fold and unless one wants to check to the river every hand until you get a top hand (I've seen 4 of a hand being checked to the river), that is the enviroment...it means there is no chance to maximise chips and the length of boredom of bingo number stamping increase. I am not sure who wants to play in this type of environment. 

I think private table game is the way to go and if there is a league out there, that would be good to know, because I don't want to play Granny poker.

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In all honesty now, gold isnt very good (Im saying that being gold myself atm). U start at 1000 silver and if u either win 4 tables by playing good/ getting lucky / at least not getting unlucky OR sit 7-8 of them out you're there.

By now (The later in the season the more people move up, and as far as the middle is concerned this means there will be plenty of low calibers) its infested by those people willing to call big leadouts with 10 4 suited OR even jamming with that, especially those with rating 1100-1130 who just made it out of the bingohall (Which bronze always used to be and silver late season is as well) and think that shit will fly forever.

The best way to go about bad agressive players is tightening up.  When i was plat  early season there used to be reasonable fun games , I wouldnt expect the same at late season gold. Granny poker is the way to go, TAG+LAG is just taking huge risks given nowadays goldies ranges and foldwillingness arent exactly reasonable

I cant agree on gold being too tight, quite the opposite. I get action a lot from inferior hands when I try agression :o

Edited by HyricanDR
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17 hours ago, Prodigal Gil said:

Anyone on Gold level or higher in Rank games?

The assumption is that the weaker, less poker experienced, calling stations, donkey players starts to reduce as one goes higher rank. However, this may not be the case and this game becomes more and more bingo like. I don't mean shuffling bingo, but a F2P game becoming, granny bingo poker game the higher status rank. 

Everyone is super tight and everyone slow plays and most of the time, everyone folds when you bet and unless the there is an underbet, you may get one call. Any re-raise, it is highly like going to be an all-in. 

This to me means, no one is playing, out smarting each other, but waiting for their card to turn up. If you even tried a bluffing move and someones hits, you get caught out. Bluffing becomes high risk as 99% all players fold and unless one wants to check to the river every hand until you get a top hand (I've seen 4 of a hand being checked to the river), that is the enviroment...it means there is no chance to maximise chips and the length of boredom of bingo number stamping increase. I am not sure who wants to play in this type of environment. 

I think private table game is the way to go and if there is a league out there, that would be good to know, because I don't want to play Granny poker.

It depends on what your version of super tight is.  Personally I like to play about 4 to 7 percent of my starting hands.  

Edited by rockguy24
It was too long of a post.

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Almost all the tourneys I play change as the game progresses.  A winning strategy used at the start of the game doesn't work the entire game.  Predictability must be avoided, weaknesses are exposed, tells are identified.   The results of position betting work against some players and not others.

Doing X doesn't mean that Y is always going to happen.

My takeaway from the continuing debate is that the egotistical elite are pissed that the unwashed keep winning.

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I will say that I didn't notice a big difference until I hit platinum rank.  The platinum players are generally much more snug with their hole card requirements.  However I just played a platinum game with two very loose players so rank isn't necessarily that huge a factor.  Some players actually just don't seem to grasp the fundamentals of the Gap concept and think limping with garbage is a long term value play even though it's not.  

Platinum or diamond ranked play still has its drawbacks.  There is a lot of limping with premium cards, still, and the games can be pretty boring.

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6 hours ago, BedsideFungus89 said:

and think limping with garbage is a long term value play even though it's not.

I think it might depend on how big the blinds are. At the beginning of the game, when you have 10k, and the blinds are 100/50, you could just as well limp with garbage hand cards, if everybody else is limping as well, just to see if you get lucky. You sometimes do.

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On 3/18/2017 at 8:46 AM, Warp said:

So, in other words, you just can't beat the stronger players, and that is, somehow, unfair or something.

You are what's commonly called a "scrub". http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub

 

That is what I observed. NO one said anything about beating anyone. If you actually read, I am asking if that is what other people observe Put and this is the type of level at Gold, i.e., are the better players at diamond for example. Put our issues aside in trying to start a whine up. 

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Platinum it is I must look forward to then! Boring at high level seems to move away from live and money poker because of the need to win points. Seem like the "gambling" part goes down hill the higher rank you go. Thanks for feedback.

Edited by Prodigal Gil

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If your understanding of better players is people driving action plenty and doing so in the right spots id imagine plat could be a good place. Anything below is just to dangerous because of bad calls getting lucky. And at diamond I would expect mainly nits/R e a l l y tight players (Not goldlike tight hurhur), but I havent been there so xD 

Objectively they get better towards the top obviously, but if you like their playstyles is a totally different question

Edited by HyricanDR

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5 hours ago, BedsideFungus89 said:

As long as you're okay with how it impacts your table image, it's a legit strat.

The problem is more than table image. It just increases the number of times you hit two pair, but have it counterfitted and beat, lose to a better set, better straight, higher flush. Yeah, you have the element of surprise, but you are constantly trying to make marginal hands hold up. You get your money in good, but the number of hands that can beat you is so large that you are doomed to come to the forums and complain about the RNG. 

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6 hours ago, Jayhawker said:

The problem is more than table image. It just increases the number of times you hit two pair, but have it counterfitted and beat, lose to a better set, better straight, higher flush. Yeah, you have the element of surprise, but you are constantly trying to make marginal hands hold up. You get your money in good, but the number of hands that can beat you is so large that you are doomed to come to the forums and complain about the RNG. 

I agree but I have heard of people using this strategy to set a loose image and then tighten their game later which is usually the opposite of what's recommended by pro players.  I'm still of the theory that playing loose when the blinds are low is a mistake because the pots are too small for this to be profitable.  Then because of your loose image you'll get calls in big pots and lose the option of bluffing later when taking down pots is critical.

My experience has been that no matter how logical the advice you put on this board people still play the way they're gonna play because when they luck into a hand, they think they made a good play.  I get bad beats a lot (the other day I had nut straight on the turn and shipped to a three bet, guy picks up a boat in the river.   He reraised me with trip sevens and got there.) but it's been a profitable play for me more often than not and I want players making those mistakes against me.  I just wish they had the wisdom to realize they made the mistake in the first place. :(

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So what I am seeing is that the maths doesn't add up to the expected percent/risk taken even for tight players on hands that are 7 or 8/10 tens you would win on a solid read. The level of bad beats out rank, at each dealt.  This means the because each card dealt is randomly generated and the RNG loop is pretty basic with the algorithm and I would go as far for the game to be poorly written generator, the expected % do not work out for those supposing leading ahead. This forces a super tight game from everyone even with top holdings, meaning no body is maximising hands or taking betting as they should. everyone is looking to slow play, everyone calling to the river before a bet, and everyone calling a typical bet size, when they should be folding, while making a hand at high intervals towards last streets. This I see as a toxic poker environment for tournament, and a speed version is likely better for this type of hit and miss gameplay. The game is finally gone candy crash now!  

 

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sounds like you're one of the impatient guys that get bored and over aggressive within the first 8 hands of a tournament. it's not a ring game, it's a tournament. play tight at the start and open up as the chumps fall off early.

if you think you're going to bluff your way to a win at tables in the Gold rank during the last week of the season good luck.

the hardest part of poker for players to learn is patience. players that know this can spot players that don't really early. If you're going all-in before the tournament is down to the bubble, you're settng yourself up to bust out unless you have a hand that literally can't lose (flush to ace, full house, etc.)

"The game is finally gone to candy crush now!"
- no, you just reached your ceiling in the rankings

Edited by Thy Macho King
typo
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There really is a drastic difference between platinum games and your average casual tournament game. I played one of the latter yesterday, and three players were eliminated before the blinds raised even once. You never see this at the platinum level. (In my experience it's rare for even a single player to be eliminated before the big blind is at least 600. It has to be a case of two players getting stupendously great hands early on, like one getting a flush and the other a full house, and both of them trying to out-bet each other.)

Edited by Warp

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Thankfully I've just edged my way back to platinum after a brief jaunt to gold tier.  Let me just say gold has lost its luster.  I don't see how the play here is much better than silver or bronze.  I vote we start a coal tier.

By about the third hand of the tournament, two players were all in with a 78os and 36h.  I laid low until I picked up an AQos.  I raised to $350.  Two callers.  I won $2650 and they saw my hand.  Despite this, when I opened the pot a few hands later to $600 with an A7c, YOLO decided that three-betting me with an A6os was a good idea and then Chowderhead Jones shipped it with K9h.  I folded (and would have lost) the best hand but I'm still a bit baffled that these blokes would decide that those were their "best plays" with those hands when the tightest player at the table raised from UTG.  

Ultimately I couldn't pull out the win because I folded everytime they all decided to jump in the line and rock their bodies with their marginal holdings. By the time the luckbox across from me eliminated the third player, I was severely outstacked.  What can you do you know?

Anyway I'm attaching some clips for your enjoyment and amusement and I'm glad to be back in platinum.  I really don't want to go back to gold turd again!

https://account.xbox.com/gameclip/c20eb73a-9522-4d6c-881a-9fd737a3ce64?gamertag=BedsideFungus89&scid=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

https://account.xbox.com/gameclip/882b8115-335b-4e54-8610-510adabb09fd?gamertag=BedsideFungus89&scid=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

https://account.xbox.com/gameclip/3929c895-c62b-4d4d-83e0-e82acf374731?gamertag=BedsideFungus89&scid=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

https://account.xbox.com/gameclip/18423312-a869-41e2-8a1d-63eb7679fc7b?gamertag=BedsideFungus89&scid=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

Edited by BedsideFungus89

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I dont know

K9h 43% <- button, has the highest chance to win on cards alone . Bonus for position. Should 3 bet had the other guy not done it. Jamming is bs either way, call or 4 bet but on here the later means other guy jamming anyways so flatcall

A7c 31 / 41% <- Utg , expects others to lay down for some reason to a small raise, out of position with an okay but not great hand. Could limp  and bet flops actually coming her way and leadout stronger hands utg

As 6d 14 / 24% <- +1, derpy reraise but maybe hoped to isolate  in a situation where he wouldve/shouldve probably taken the pot cbetting if flop isnt 77, cc, or A7

2nd number includes chopping, but you are l e s s than 1/3rd to win in a 3 man pot here, and more than a half to be eliminated. NOT the best hand, but good laydown. Wooop woop

Edited by HyricanDR

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Yeah.  I was hoping for an easy pot with the raise and at least hoping to see a flop cheap with a narrowed field but I didn't raise big because I didn't want to overcommit myself with a weak ace.  I still like my play alright.  I like my fold even better.

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I think what drives the super conservative check-call approach so many players take is the payout structure, and by that I mean rank points.  In a typical 6 max SNG the first two would pay and 3rd thru 6th would be the same.  This drives a very different approach.

In this game there is value in getting 5th vs 6th. 6th is very penalizing and 5th isn't much better so people avoid that at all costs.  By the time 5th and 6th finally get knocked out you're at relatively high blinds and most players quite short stacked.  Sometimes it becomes a shove fest, which it rightfully should when stacks are in the 5-12 BB range.  A good player has an advantage in these situations making shove/call/fold decisions but it's a pretty minimal edge.

The key I suppose is to take advantage of everyone's fear of taking 5th/6th but it can definitely feel like a mine-field with how wide the check-call range typically is.  I am far from perfecting it myself.  Interesting reading the thoughts in here.

Edited by PMGS247

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