Mayo

Is it just me...

25 posts in this topic

But should they have called this game "comeback kid poker"?

i have played cards my whole life, over 40 years and I never seen so many hands get cracked. No hand is safe at this point and it's like runner, runner magic for the guy behind.

beginning to question the "randomizer" at this point myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like you're salty about a few bad beats.  I haven't played for 40 years, but I've got about 15 years in and I've seen plenty of 'em.  In this game specifically, I've seen a few and I've seen plenty of hands hold up, including going all in with pocket deuces on the short stack.  No matter how bad the beat, if you ain't holding the stone cold nuts, you can't get mad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well I wanted to give the card "randomizer" a chance to recover from the comeback kid gameplay, but I guess its not to be.

so many things have happened since my original post, that I feel correct in my original assumption that this games "randomizer" is clearly broken.

too bad because this is a great format to play, but when the cards consistently defy the odds...something is obviously off.

I more than welcome the developers to review my last 500 hands or so and tell me im wrong.

salt and bad beats are part of the game, but when you loose more than win when maintaining a lead, something is off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry. I gotta call BS on the "playing for 40 years" thing. That would make you 50-60 years old, and there is no way that a person in that age bracket that has been playing poker for 40 years does not know that the correct spelling is L-O-S-E. Your pants are too loose. You lose poker hands.

Just sayin'

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No actually it would make me 48 brother. Got an early start playing rummy with my family as a kid. 

The POINT is that I have seen cards fall for my many years, but never like this.

it amazes me that people think that a forum is some kind of spelling competition.lol

its not an editorial from the USA today ya know...it's a forum. Just sayin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The POINT is that you use the "been playing cards for 40 years" as an attempt to show your pseudo expertise in playing poker. I'm just pointing out that anyone that has played poker for that long a time would have probably known the correct way to spell lose since it's such an integral part of the game and anyone playing for that many years would have said it, wrote it, read it, watched it for years as well.

Playing rummy doesn't make you an expert at poker. Playing 5 card draw doesn't make you an expert at texas hold'em. Playing any card game casually for however many years doesn't make you knowledgeable on "how cards fall."

If you have concerns over the legitimacy of the RNG, here's a post from the General Discussion tab:

You can also find several other posts over that concerning how the cards fall if you'd like to weigh in on them as well.

Most lives games of texas hold'em rarely ever see as many boards to the river as a free online poker game does, possible exceptions being a micro stakes (penny, nickel, dime stuff) or chips only (no value) games for fun and bragging rights. Even these games will not move nearly as fast as an online poker game. You'll see 10-20 hands an hour in a live poker game. You'll see 40-60 hands an hour in an online poker game. Assuming no flaws in the RNG of online play, you are going to see a much higher per hour instance of "impossible" hands than you would in a "real" game.

We see trends, look for them and find them. It's confirmation bias and most of us have been guilty of it at some point, myself included.

Last thing. I don't think the RNG on this game is the greatest, but it is the best I've ever seen on any free to play poker game. It's bad when you get  hit with a suck out on river, I know. But I can tell you that I've won my fair share of pots on this game by winning on the river as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solid points have been stated and I appreciate you taking the time to express them. I'm just looking for feedback from others to see if it is happening to them as well.

i still believe that it is flawed to a degree, but it is a game for fun so at the end of the day it's no biggie.

To suggest a lack of knowledge based on a spelling error is simply foolish in my world, for the simple fact that it could have been a type error on an iPad...ya know, two o's instead of one.

just something to think about before you start declaring bs in the future 😉

Edited by Mayo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or not being a murrican. Lose/loose is one of the most common mistakes i get to see here in germany. Guesstimated 8 of 10 cant spell it correctly, wether they compete or not.

I too played poker (Yes draw, but still poker)  as a baby, probably age 6. And holdem since 10, so at "only" 29 it seems fair to say 20+ Years exp. Why people with 40 years exp should be 60+ I dont understand. Is it that much of an adult thing over in the states?

but for discussion id highly recommend "general discussion" and pre existing threads, not a new one under poker tips (THAT is BS, unless your tip is be careful betting too big on undecided things, people will call even if its stupid, and suck you out more often than youd expect) Oo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*checks if mentioned not being a native speaker* *nods* thanks tho (I dont understand the second part either, ill just take it as a jab. Google seems to agree xD)

Edited by HyricanDR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mayo you are not wrong in any regard the RCG on this site is pure shit there is nothing random about this site its made for those that have no ability to calculate the odds because the odds here are not even applicable. You better have the Nuts or do not bet or you lose. I also have been playing 40 years i am 56 years old and i have never seen worse of a shuffler and RCG I cant even count how many times ive seen 3 or more players with pockets and every single one of them flop or turn a set 6 handed lol . This site is not enjoyable by any means it takes way to long to even get a tournament or ranked game 10-20 minute or more waiting. You wanna play poker without the wait and a normal RCG there is plenty to play on FB games 100 times better than this Crap For the rest of you, you dont even play enough to have a opinion!!! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ChipArtist said:

there is nothing random about this site its made for those that have no ability to calculate the odds because the odds here are not even applicable.

Nonsense! I play many hours a week in prominence and have seen no evidence of the above whatsoever but why don't you record 50-60 consecutive hands showing your claim in action and post the video here? No?? Didn't think so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Zanatoo said:

Nonsense! I play many hours a week in prominence and have seen no evidence of the above whatsoever but why don't you record 50-60 consecutive hands showing your claim in action and post the video here? No?? Didn't think so. 

Look guy, if you play many hours a week, you gotta know by now something is a little off with this randomizer. As I stated in another thread, the only constant in poker is that when you are ahead, you will win more times than not.

This just has not been my experience to date with THIS game. I'm a coin flip at best (and I am being generous when I say that) when ahead and that is all I need to know to believe something is not right.

Its a fun format and I hope that these guys continue to make it better, but it's got to start with that randomizer...it needs work.

Edited by Mayo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mayo you'll find threads around the internet discussing the very same topic regarding Party Poker, Full Tilt, Poker Stars, 888, and just about every other poker game there is, full of people like yourself who are absolutely convinced that there is an issue with the cards. Tests have been done, data recorded, databases scrutinised, and all coming to the same conclusion, that the cards were indeed falling in a random sequence and that the problems being reported were really just in the imagination of those complaining. 

I have no proof that the system on here works. Last night I raised 10x big blinds in early position. One caller and the flop came 33J. I check and bets the pot. I'm thinking AJ? KJ? Not JJ or AA because he would have reraised preflop and wouldn't be trying to take down the pot now, so I go all in believing I have the better hand. This is now $3.5m in the pot. He shows 93.... 9 f**king 3 off suit to a 10x bet!!!! My point is, this was not a bad beat, I was already behind when I shoved, but this IS what happens when you play a novice who has no idea what he is doing. Multiply that novice by three or four or five more at the table and it's going to vastly increase occurrence of this type of scenario and will quickly give the impression that there is a problem with the cards when in actual fact, there isn't. 

I would bet that yourself and most of the players complaining about the RNG have some real money experience? If so, you are not used to seeing premium hands being beaten so often and certainly not with the frequency and severity that we do here. It's very easy to conclude that it's the software to blame but in my opinion (as I have no proof) it's just really really bad players and too many of them at once. I don't know what stakes you play at but I play at the $1M tables and they're rife there so I can only imagine what it's like at the lower stakes. 

At the end of the day, the only way to know which one of us is right, is to collect enough data to give a clear indication of variance beyond the accepted norm. This is unlikely to ever happen and so this debate is going to go on and on....

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Zanatoo said:

Mayo you'll find threads around the internet discussing the very same topic regarding Party Poker, Full Tilt, Poker Stars, 888, and just about every other poker game there is, full of people like yourself who are absolutely convinced that there is an issue with the cards. Tests have been done, data recorded, databases scrutinised, and all coming to the same conclusion, that the cards were indeed falling in a random sequence and that the problems being reported were really just in the imagination of those complaining. 

I have no proof that the system on here works. Last night I raised 10x big blinds in early position. One caller and the flop came 33J. I check and bets the pot. I'm thinking AJ? KJ? Not JJ or AA because he would have reraised preflop and wouldn't be trying to take down the pot now, so I go all in believing I have the better hand. This is now $3.5m in the pot. He shows 93.... 9 f**king 3 off suit to a 10x bet!!!! My point is, this was not a bad beat, I was already behind when I shoved, but this IS what happens when you play a novice who has no idea what he is doing. Multiply that novice by three or four or five more at the table and it's going to vastly increase occurrence of this type of scenario and will quickly give the impression that there is a problem with the cards when in actual fact, there isn't. 

I would bet that yourself and most of the players complaining about the RNG have some real money experience? If so, you are not used to seeing premium hands being beaten so often and certainly not with the frequency and severity that we do here. It's very easy to conclude that it's the software to blame but in my opinion (as I have no proof) it's just really really bad players and too many of them at once. I don't know what stakes you play at but I play at the $1M tables and they're rife there so I can only imagine what it's like at the lower stakes. 

At the end of the day, the only way to know which one of us is right, is to collect enough data to give a clear indication of variance beyond the accepted norm. This is unlikely to ever happen and so this debate is going to go on and on....

 

 

 

 

^^^^^ this pretty much sums it.  Now can we stop talking about this.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One is always going to see a huge amount of variance in free poker because there are just more callers and more cards. You end up seeing more hands for larger pots than you would otherwise see in a real money stable game and so it begins a confirmation bias that it is the RNG. It isn't. As a casino host i deal with this confirmation bias in real life... People playing without their cards in a machine...people crying about how tight one casino is over another.. Its all just confirmation bias.  

Edited by Wuss^Timmy
needed to fix a spelling error
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have quite a bit of experience with this feeling in the past. I felt as if certain things were happening more often than they should. I've felt that with a variety of online venues, certain real life dealers/games.

It took me actively trying to track things myself to turn me back to reality. I was simply playing poorly and remembering the bad rather than the good. As I have seen others say, I think one of the reasons people are quicker to bring up bad RNG in online play is the fact that there are so many more hands per hour. In the basement games I've played, ten hands an hour is fairly average. A little faster if people are lit. Online, you fly through so many hands that it feels like your bad luck is coming fast and frequent. Really, everything is coming fast and frequent. But we remember and react to bad things happening quickly more than we do good or mundane things.

The faster games are played, the more discipline is takes for most of us to keep our head level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fully understand what people are saying on here but I would, in general, wholeheartedly agree with the original post. I play close to 500,000 hands a year of online poker. Have done for about 6 years. I don’t make massive amounts of money (low stakes cash games mainly, with the odd tournament thrown in). I’ve played in plenty of formats where play is incredibly loose (freeroll tournaments, etc) where people call pre-flop 3/4-bets with 72o without thinking twice but I’ve NEVER seen the sheer volume of bad beats that this game throws up. There is DEFINITELY something amiss with this game. Sure, if you play long enough and are patient, you do well. I think some people are confusing this and assuming that, because they are making “money”, there’s no major issue with the randomiser. Anyone who has played a significant number of poker hands using the Fisher-Yates (or similar) algorithm for randomisation will immediately smell something amiss. Just one example of this happened the other day, playing a ranked tournament. I reached heads-up with a guy who had 4.5k left (to my 55.5k). Over the course of about 40 hands, he one-outed me on the river (2.2%), hit one of 2 outs on the river (4.4%) and hit a 1/756 (0.13%) runner runner (needed the last 2 Jacks in the deck). He ended up winning the tournament and every single double-up was a bad beat. I’m sorry, but the chances of that happening over the course of 40 hands or so is ASTRONOMICALLY low. To the point of being statistically almost impossible. Anyone who says “Oh that happens in poker” is completely unaware of odds. It doesn’t. Bad beats are always going to happen but not to that extent. I’ve been on the receiving end of plenty of dodgy “fortune” too, so it does even itself out but my guess is that the “randomiser” is skewed in order to promote action. Not necessarily a bad thing and it’ll even out for everyone, meaning that skill wins out in the end (because chance is the same for everyone given enough hands). 100% the randomiser in this game is not “random”. I still enjoy it though.

 

Edited by NoMoreLuke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bad beats are always going to happen but not to that extent. I’ve been on the receiving end of plenty of dodgy “fortune” too, so it does even itself out but my guess is that the “randomiser” is skewed in order to promote action. Not necessarily a bad thing and it’ll even out for everyone, meaning that skill wins out in the end (because chance is the same for everyone given enough hands). 100% the randomiser in this game is not “random”. I still enjoy it though.

Very good points, thanks for sharing. 

You're right, its impossible for a computer to ever do random. 

Formulas are created to do pseudo-random number creation. 

 

 

Edited by Farmer John40

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, forgot to mention the least likely (statistically) of all the events that took place in that heads-up situation. We both got dealt pocket aces (split pot). Work out the probability of that happening, combine it with the other events listed above and you’ll see what I mean. And... Just to add another factor to the mix. Playing heads up results in your hole cards being WAY more likely to be favourable than when you’re playing in the early stages. Again, promoting action. In actual live play (or even a decent online site), heads-up can be a crapfest, enabling (and actually requiring) you to play hands that you ordinarily wouldn’t look twice at. Doesn’t happen on here because suddenly the hands improve dramatically.

The example of this heads-up situation is just one example (albeit the most obvious one) but this sort of thing happens a lot. To anyone who has ever played a lot of poker (and I mean millions of hands), this game feels wrong. It’s not because of over-aggression by other players, it’s because the odds simply don’t compute.

The randomiser is about as “random” as the shuffle function on the early iPods. Anyone remember that??

Edited by NoMoreLuke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dedicated NLH player here:

Never in my poker playing time have i seen as many: Paired and Double Paired Boards, 4 to a Flush or 4 to a Straight boards , and 10% chance bad beats happen 75% of the time.  You can tell me till you are blue in the face the cards are random, i won't believe you.

A free game with the only way for the manufacture to make a profit is to get players to buy chip packages. the only way players will buy chips is if they LOSE!

BTW - i am diamond ranked and consistently ranked in the top 25 in the prominence tnmts but can only average to play about 1 game a day.

OFF TOPIC Never will i be able to keep pace with the top players (the real life losers) who play well over 100 games every month.  I wish there was some kind of grade scale for amount of games played. (Example_The diamond player with the least amount of games played, say 30, means the guy who played 130 games gets 1 point deducted for every game over 30 they played = -100 points) 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way any sponsors of poker games: casinos, clubs, backroom illegal gaming room, makes money is when the players LOSE.  Their profit comes from keeping a larger percentage of entry fees and the rake than players win.  They do so by realizing a simple truth, the odds favor the house.

Note to self.  When 6 players play a poker hand, only one player wins, the rest are losers.

I've been playing ranked tournaments since they were introduced.  I'm currently a diamond player for the fourth time after playing 989 games and winning 535 times. (third or better).  I consider myself an average player with a chip count of 27.7 million.  I've never bought a chip since PP was introduced, and the first Hold-em poker game I ever played, in any venue, was in the summer of 2009.

Welcome to the forum.

Edited by Farmer John40
change "dealer" to house

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/29/2018 at 8:17 PM, Farmer John40 said:

The only way any sponsors of poker games: casinos, clubs, backroom illegal gaming room, makes money is when the players LOSE.  Their profit comes from keeping a larger percentage of entry fees and the rake than players win.  They do so by realizing a simple truth, the odds favor the house.

WHAT are you talking about fella?? You are talking absolute rubbish. This is Prominence Poker - there is no "rake"...

Also, the house will NEVER take more rake than players win - they usually take a small percentage of the action (typically around 5%). If you are winning less than 5%, you are automatically losing. It is in their best interests to PROMOTE action, since more action equals more rake.

Prominence Poker artificially promotes more action (and there is absolutely NO doubt about this) because it's a console-based game where people's attention spans are MUCH shorter than those playing seriously on poker sites. The more action and bad beats there are, the shorter the games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/29/2018 at 4:10 PM, Pot Committed said:

Dedicated NLH player here:

Never in my poker playing time have i seen as many: Paired and Double Paired Boards, 4 to a Flush or 4 to a Straight boards , and 10% chance bad beats happen 75% of the time.  You can tell me till you are blue in the face the cards are random, i won't believe you.

 

 

It is, quite simply, statistically impossible that the cards are random. Now, admittedly, achieving genuine "randomness" on a digital platform is difficult but whatever algorithm PP use is either woefully flawed or is intended to induce bad beats. Given that even a flawed random generator is unlikely to result in a huge increase in bad beats, I would suggest strongly that it's the latter. Action is promoted so the games are concluded more quickly. One surefire, 100% guaranteed way to speed up games is to increase bad beats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NoMoreLuke said:

WHAT are you talking about fella?? You are talking absolute rubbish. This is Prominence Poker - there is no "rake"...

 

I also thought that PP didn't take a rake, but another player corrected me.   There appears to be a rake taken in ring games.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now